one of the complaints about this, about this campaign, both against president obama and also governor mitt romney is the lock of specifics about all of these plans that both men have actually what does the president want to do for his second term, but for mitt romney, how are you going to do all these things. i have to give chris wallace a lot of credit for pushing ryan where do you get the $5 trillion from. it's not enough to say it's revenue neutral. where is that coming from? quite frankly it's not enough to say i don't have enough time to get into all that or i'm afraid i'm going to put people to sleep. well you know what, the people who are watching the debates and fox news sunday are the people who have the time to sit there and listen to you go into wants sylvania to talk about those things. they can't get away with this for much longer. >> but the thing is, jonathan and sam, it's not wonky. it's very simple. if you're going to cut all income rates by 20%. which is, as chris wallace who was great in that interview that we just saw, chris wallace was right, that cost $5 trillion